Bray a new ba cast about to start right now. Jamie Bendel Jamie, Hernan, Adam, what's your stop? I'm not feeling today I'm a little bit down my ally, What's matter what's wrong? Well, I just, I sometimes worry that there is an overwhelmed like, you know, someone trolling me about something I said, I think it's being taken out of context online and it's like it's just it's a runaway train, I almost want to just shut down my media, my social media presence, like we watched this movie the social dilemma, which basically says that, you know, the robots are coming in to control us through our social media. And it's some point, I question whether the benefits outweigh the costs. That movie truly frightened me because all along, I thought that these companies were data companies. And what that movie tells you or that documentary tells you is that their product is not data. It is us, right? We are the product. Yeah, like there's a quote in it where they say, if you're using something and you're not paying to use it, you are the product, right? You're not the customer, the customer is actually all the vendors that do the advertisements. You're the product that we're selling, except for our sheep we love our sheep and and they're not paying for this and we love them and we would never sell our sheep have an opportunity to pay for it though. They want we got the Patreon page and we got the we got some swag up that they can take advantage of. So they're more than welcome to Yeah, that was great. They can't if they want, but anyhow, say schwag schwag schwag swag bags. We got swag. Yeah, go ahead. Check out the podcast calm the swag and the swag. We got t shirts schwag and lagen. We got visors. We got all kinds of we got coffee mugs. There are times when because let's face it, the only reason you're listening to this is because of a cool logo. We got that cool sheep on a surfboard. Yeah, that's the driving force. It is a driving force. Yeah, you know, I mean, when you guys decided not to fight what the companies think I'm interested in. I figured they know better than me. Okay, I've reached a point in my life where I'm going to yield the decision making to them. If you've decided that what I need to see is ads for watches and square body trucks. Yep. Apparently that's what I'm into. Okay, but I've actually gotten to where people will ask me to check out music on Spotify. And if it's not in my wheelhouse, No, I will not do it. You can pull it up on your Spotify put it on speaker and I'll listen to it. But if I put it on my Spotify when I get to my discover weekly or release radar, they're gonna start giving me all kinds of crap based on the music that you try to get me to listen to and I need Spotify to know the real me oh my god try sharing a Spotify account with two teenage boys. I mean, it is it is the parent account. So we did for a long time before like they did Spotify did the family accounts where you can kind of spread it out. But before oh my gosh, how does your children are just two random Oh, two random kids. Yeah, two random kids. Yeah. Who I found online who I they wanted free Spotify. So just through my account, but no, Mr. Will you give me speed Spotify? Yeah. So when we were kids, we hung out. For Spotify. When we were kids. We listen to some explicit lyrics in my favor or limit. Explicit lyrics you remember when and before you say that I think Jamie has something to say, oh. We used to hang out at 711 and ask old people to I have a duty song to listen to that. Use some words and my mom will warn him and listen to come up. Please use your Spotify for just a moment. All right. All right. So yeah, no, it was my sons and my sons. And so my my weekly discovery was full of, you know, all kinds of like, really emo and then really rapping then. Well, yeah, whatever. It may be just like post malone too much. Can we I would love to find somebody who could come on and talk about the appeal of the durgy teen angsty ballad It is something about that emo II Yeah, that I just don't get it on me. But didn't you get it then? Did you get it whenever the team never got I was too happy person. I was when we were 18 Yeah. Are you sure? I've been 35 for like 43 years. It was like Depeche Mode. arranger. Like they were all kind of I loaned somebody to the meanwhile, I was upstairs with upstairs with the boss. Yeah. Anyhow, we got a good show for the finishing the intro. Yes. Hey, thank you. I'm back. I'm feeling better. All I did was you guys. Yes. Help me out. Hey, excuse me, sir. Can I please listen to these explicit On your Spotify, you can hook up. I'd like to do a search term on your Instagram that I would not know about is that at all possible I do like to ask people if I can borrow their phone they think that I'm borrowing it to make a phone call but then you just go on their Spotify and put some terrible music on there and then later on there what the hell did that guy do? You are an evil evil human being and don't think I'm not I'm still getting subscriptions from weird magazine calm from when you previously signed me up. And by the way, I'm not selling Avon no matter how many times you signed me up. I'm just trying to give you multiple streams of Yeah, thank you very little. Yeah. Anyhow, we got going on today. We got a great guest, Gaby Dunn. Gabby's terrific. If you're not familiar with her, she's a prolific content creator. best selling author. Hit podcasts, multiple podcasts yet, which is probably as good a time as any to let you guys know that I'm probably gonna think about adding additional podcasts. Maybe on your own. Hold on a second. I want Gabby did it. But yeah, but what are we gonna do this on the air? She's gonna talk about this. Some other. I think it's the best time to talk about it in front of the shade. We're going to talk about this one, I want the sheep to follow me into the new content. But secondly, by the way, Adam, remember that podcast You and I are going to do that we were talking about you should totally do it. Oh, yeah. We were talking and I've got I've got so many offers. It's crazy. Yeah, it's crazy. You'd be amazed at how many offers so let's get for it don't crazy, handsome and boring guy. Okay, so let me just make the optic that the friendly suggestion that don't turn your hypothetical other podcast into your Canadian girlfriend. Okay, since we've talked about emo teen years, Yes, right. Yes. It's It's okay. I have another podcast said Canadian. Your we tease all year. universal healthcare. That would be hilarious if you guys called my Canadian girlfriend. Just gotta be. Gotta be what? Alright, folks. So tune in. He talked about the yard sale thing. Now, the yard sale. So that's an additional worried about you. Let's get the yard sale. One started off soon. I assume I think we may need to wait distracted. I've given some thought to the garage sale yard sale podcast. And that needs to be streamed live. So that always has to be a live like maybe on Twitch or possibly on. Right. Just put it out there. I think he's made a lot of dead space in that. There isn't no way he gets a mile a minute. We're gonna crush it. Yeah, we did. I think Raj stay alive. It is a roller coaster for around 30 minutes and people are gonna get off it and you know, hilarious, but it's gonna be a risk that as we broadcasted live, there's gonna be a rush of people to that garage sale when they see all the amazing things that are okay. So let's just, let's take this for Africa. We have we have great concepts. Just Just for once. Just be in the moment for one. I'm not listening to you anymore. You were cheating on us and you start meditating and be read to me. I'm not. That's not the case. Yeah, I saw when the second you came in with that shirt. I knew you were cheating. I'm just saying, you know, all right. Na cast is grown. All right. And it's time for us to pursue some solo projects. Oh my god. All right. Honestly, we get big guests suddenly, and suddenly you're out like now. I'm telling you. Okay, good. I'm in. We're here. We're doing this. This is gonna grow. Um, I love the flock. I love what we do here. This is a good time to say that. I really, I don't have a problem with Sammy Hagar. Van Halen. Like I really don't like, you know, bringing in someone else as the lead singer. I I'm okay with that. I'm not leaving. Anywhere. Who are you? Yeah. What do you what have you become? This this podcast has changed you man. You know what's gonna happen? The success, a little bit of success. You're going nuts. I was just for what I was saying. I really don't like saying, Okay. That's gross. We're going to be at garage sale live. We're going to be on Twitch with it. It's going to be crushing. And you know, it's going to be for sale there. What a Sammy Hagar era cassette of Van Halen. And in every time we find one, I am relentlessly mocking you with it. Okay, about three o'clock this morning. I'm going to wake up in a cold sweat realizing I had a better example. I'm gonna come down here to the studio and fix it mo fix. I'm gonna record the essence. Yes, fine. Yeah, we do give you the keys. Yeah, may need to call you guys come down. Also, we make you do all the other work about cleaning out all my bad language, then, by all means that's the power of the Edit. We turn it over anyhow. Got a big one tonight. Yeah, it's a great episode. Yep. It's gonna be fun. Looking forward to it settling. It's gonna be good cheap. Yeah, call the appointment. Tell them you're gonna be a few minutes late. Yep. Or maybe just stay in the car. Because, yeah, don't close the garage door. No, dude, we didn't Don't want you don't open the garage door either. If you lose your home, then yeah, just sit in the car for a second saying hope the wife doesn't start walking the houses up the street, maybe extra stopper to the public transit shirt, whatever you got to do by yourself with extra time, because we like to keep a company, it's gonna be a good one to stick around. I know there's gonna come a point when you maybe have run out of podcast episodes that you can listen to while you're waiting on a new one to drop, as they say. Let me make a suggestion that you check out Scott Curtis's behind the bits podcast, it was a discover pod award, which is not for eating laundry detergent. No, it is for best interview style podcast. He has a new comic guest every week. Some are household names that you would know others are people whose names you perhaps should know. And they tell you a little bit about what goes into their path to becoming a successful comedian that they are who's right along. It's interesting in depth creature who did when the the laundry detergent eating award at the Discover pods? Actually I heard that nobody wanted I heard they tired. Oh, look at who's got humor tonight. Look at the big brain on this guy. Hang on a second. I think I know somebody else who could benefit from listening to some of the comedians on the behind the podcast and shape up Comedy Week. Week. Check it out. She got more comedy for you over there but and then you know, come on back. After you're done. Listen to some behind the bits. Jimmy here your setlist is as a stain in it that will never come out. No matter how much detergent you use. Fair enough. Alright, folks, check out the behind the bits podcast. You can find it on any of the places that you find podcasts, check out the podcast and you will come away both informed and entertained. Alright, welcome back to the podcast. I am Jamie bendele. Jamie Hernan Adam, hey, this is gonna be a good one sheep. So ringing the bell, it always sounds like a disservice to other guests to say I'm excited about this next guest, which implies previous guests not so much about. However, there's continuity between episodes where hosts are always excited about the guests. In this case, I think this may be the first time that we actually have a New York Times bestselling author of the podcast, I'm excited. Thank you so much. I hope that I will be one of this 1000 I would love to pick that. But so the backstory here our guest this evening is Gaby Dunn. If you don't listen to any of her podcast content, she is also a writer. She is also I guess I would consider you also a producer, would you say you produce as well? Yeah, I make I mean, I like YouTube. Yeah, we did YouTube stuff. And you're creators. So it's so it sounds big. I mean, I usually just say writer, because that kind of encompasses everything. But my but my dad, I got a journalism degree. So if I say writer, my dad is like, aha, using her degree. She's a writer, but I love the origin story, if people are familiar with it, you, which I understand as this project, to really go out and interview a bunch of people. Yes, that is, yes, I was talking about this today. And I and I haven't talked about this in so long, because it was like 2009. But the first big thing I ever did on the internet was I started a blog called 100 interviews. And the idea was just that I would write about my life and also interview 100 people in a year, just to learn about like people who aren't me. So I write about myself, and I would also write about them. And it was just like random people and getting their life stories or whatever. And that for some reason, caught the attention of the Village Voice recipes. And I they wrote a little thing about it. And then from there, it got like a lot of followers and readers. And then that was I mean, I got like a book agent from it, where we didn't end up writing a book and nobody bought nobody bought my book and you know, these little starts that you get where you're like, oh, like this is gonna be a thing. And then it's not a thing. But um, but that was the first thing I ever did. And, and one of the people who read that blog was like, my first TV agent out in LA, just because I was like, I posted one day on that blog, like, Hey, I wrote I've written scripts to if you guys are fans of this blog, maybe you'll want to read a script and one of those people. Yeah, so let me ask you this. Now all these years later, your life has changed. How many of those people would you swap out for different people? Do you think it would be the same kind of project? If you embarked on it as a like 2022 project to say, I'm going to go back? Oh, interview with a different 100? People? That's a really interesting question. I think, I think it would be different. Because there was a lot of stuff that I, I didn't really know that much about, obviously, that's the point of interviewing. But like, I remember, like, I interviewed, I, like I interviewed someone who had survived Hurricane Katrina. And that was like, really intense, but also like an uplifting story. But I think now if I were to redo it, I would maybe have more questions about like, the structural failures of things. Like I think I was just very young. And I was like, very, in some ways, it's good that was focused on the actual people. And so I I wrote about, like, their lives and stuff, but I wasn't so politically aware that I included anything that I that was, like, controversial, but just that I didn't, I don't think I included, like my own politics or my own, like, I think I've basically over time have become more leftist. And so I because just like, I think I was like a little bit, I had this shine to me where I believe that journalism was objective. And so a lot of the stuff that I worked on, I was like, you know, I mean, this is gonna sound you guys, it's gonna sound so naive. And, and but like, when I was in school for journalism, the there was a thing that you shouldn't register to vote with a political party, because it might make you look biased. And so we were told not to register with a political party, because if you were reporting on politics, people might be like, well, she, she's got an opinion. And now you you can't go and look at any sort of political reporting without understanding the political bent of the publication or of the reporter. Yeah, I would actually go one step further and say, I might not choose to get a surgery from an orthopedist who was registered as a Republican. Absolutely. I know. And that's, and that is, that's where we're at now and playing 21. And I don't think me and 2009 doing this blog, like, I don't think I could have predicted that. Like, I really believed in like the the objective importance of the art of journalism, you know what I mean? And now I look back at like, my old Facebook posts, and I'm like, God, you were so self righteous, and like, you had no idea what was coming. That's so great. I think I would go to an anger management counselor, who's a republican, because I feel like they've got a lot of putting it down experienced a lot of clientele they're working with now. It's, I mean, it's, it's interesting, because now as as we listen to like, your current, your current podcast, we see that you're very, you know, both you and Alison are very much out and open with regard to your politics and with regard to kind of your belief systems. And, and so it's interesting that you've evolved like that, that you came from being, you know, I got to keep all this stuff quiet to not only we're not going to keep it quiet, but we're just going to put it on the front page, we're going to talk about it well, but so. Alright, so yeah, definitely, you feel like that's an expectation. So this is what we struggle with. Right. And we talk about this all the time amongst ourselves, which is, I think, sometimes, and whether you're a comedian, or maybe if you're a singer, if you're a person who maybe does want to get into politics, if you are doing a podcast, if you are becoming a writer, I get this sense that you pull so many punches early, as you're getting those things going for fear that there will be negative consequences in quote, unquote, whatever your real life is. Yeah, of course, I'm lucky that I'm lucky that my parents like it, like they didn't really care. Like, they gave like anything that I've worked on or done. They they didn't really, they weren't like, no, don't be out or they weren't like no don't, you know, talk about this aspect of our lives, whatever. Not that my mom My mom is has a lot of problems with my financial podcast. That was funny because we talked about how I grew up in my money situation, and he has equated growing up without money to somehow I'm saying she's a bad mom, which is like, just in with the amount that I talked about the structural failings and like governmental failings that led to this kind of thing. She's like, but I, I people will think I was a bad mother was like, nobody will think that but, um, but so people don't like it. People don't like to be talked about, they don't like. And so you know, my comedy partner too. And there's a lot of stuff that he has told me she's not going to write about color parents are dead. That's so wild. To me, it seems. But do you think that some of that is driven by a shift in technology? And by that, I mean, I think that over time, we've we have agreed, we're going to reveal more about ourselves. Either implicitly or explicitly, and that our comfort level with it has lessened the number of things that you're not supposed to talk about or that you shouldn't talk about. Yeah, but now I've gone full circle the other way. Like, I've spent 10 years basically living my life online. And now, starting in like glass in the fall, I don't have Twitter, like I, I'm off Twitter, I, I'm very, I started becoming a little bit more private and pulling back a lot. I think like a lot of the stuff. Even if it seems like someone is living their life fully online, I think I was playing a character in some ways. And so it was helpful to me to know that I was curating some of it, but it is a mindfuck when people believe that to 100% be you. And of course, like I'm using my real name, but character is me Gabby dots. So like, they'll they'll believe, oh, that's you. That's what you're really like. And you know, I've struggled with people think that you are the last thing they saw you do. So if it's the first thing that someone sees of me is a video I made in 2014, it doesn't matter that I made it in 2014. It matters that they saw it yesterday. And so that is really hard to come to terms with and really hard to, to figure out who you are separate from what you've created online. And so now at 32, I kind of I pulled back a little bit with that. And I feel less pressure with that. And maybe that's a privilege because I did spend 10 years sort of giving everything away. And so now I'm like, okay, I don't want to do that anymore. I want to just focus on my work. And I don't need to, I think I'm like I would rather write my scripts quietly. And like, I don't need to be in everything. And I don't need to be posting all the time. And part of me is like, okay, maybe that's more of a distraction than a help to me at this point. But in the beginning, yeah, it was kind of like hard to know what was really you because people had such ideas of what I was like, I mean, I was very the character that I played was like, I mean, was very, like militant in her in her views. And so people would come at me on the internet, wanting to fight expecting that me, the real me would want to fight. And oftentimes, if someone has like an opinion that's different than mine, and they're making a lot of sense, I'll be like, yeah, totally, like, I get it, I see it, but because like, they, they thought that I was 24 seven, open, open to fighting. And so it's hard to I think, like, I think sometimes it lets people view other people on the internet have characters and not as human beings and, and, and feelings and debates and interactions as content rather than, like, lived experiences. And so I've pulled back a little because I found it to be increasingly unhealthy. So let me ask you this, and maybe it's a different Did you have you were gonna say No, go ahead. No, no, no, you should really you should say, the whole interview. We're having a listening. Jamie and no one else. But at the point at one thing. Yeah. I'm really stuck. I'm really nervous now to listen to you and Allison going forward, because I'm afraid if I hear her talk about her parents, I'm just gonna feel this sense of grief for her because I'd be afraid that her parents have died because she's talking. Yeah, you'd love them. Don't ever, like knock on wood. Those are like her best friend. Oh, no, no. Everything is going well for them and her. So hold on a second. Let's go back to that, specifically if you're a regular listener to the podcast, unless and again, I'm talking about sidetracking an interview. Here we go again, there will be some precursors, like, oh, Allison's parents are not doing well. Right. Right, your know that there will be a lead up to this thing that happens. And then I would assume give the person a chance to maybe grieve the loss of her parents, and then finally reveal what she believes to be the comedic truth. She can tell up until this point about whatever the upbringing is, right? Right. But I think people I think people are, I've seen a lot of people living that kind of thing, especially COVID, like, in real time, which is new, right? Because normally, you would have, you wouldn't be able to just hop on and tell a, you know, a group of people that you got dumped or that your mom died or that you know, all these kinds of things that I think are happening in real time versus having the moment to reflect on it and put it in a script or put it in a joke, you know, do you mean like once you write something as a stand up, like once you write something as a joke, you've clearly sat and had time with it. No, you're right. And I want to explore a little bit though. It As we talk about the kind of the parental role and, and that, obviously is a word all guys in our late 40s, right? There's an age gap between us and you, right? And even if you're about to group me in as always a flag and ascribing to me some rough age group assigned. No, no, I'm not gonna do that. I'm just saying, we're all fathers. Yeah, we're all fathers. And we're all actually fathers of girls, and boys. And one of the things that I find listening to your podcast that resonates with me is just your incred your and maybe it's your character, but you sound very secure, and very healthy. And and, and maybe you're maybe maybe it is a character more than a real person. But as we look as the older, as old father's looking at our daughters, and our and then in our in our sons that we're bringing up, what do you ascribe that to that you've come through? I mean, so many people don't come through in a secure healthy, what why do you ascribe that to that you're able to do what you do and go on at all these different venues and have these intense discussions about intense topics? Pretty freely? Yeah, I don't know. Because I, when I got that way, I did a lot of projects with people, and they just kind of never went anywhere. And then one of the things that I Allison and I are so different, but one of the things that I always say, is why it worked out with us is that we both just finished thing. So like, we got together, and we were like, we're gonna make this show. And we made the show. And we both like, we're honest, and talked about what we need to talk about. And then we were we felt the ambition or whatever it is inside of you that lets you hit Publish to so many people make things and and are just, I can't show anyone just by one perfect thing. That has to be perfect before I do anything with it. And you know, some we're both the types of people who are just like, just hit publish, and then we'll make another one. If that one doesn't do well, we'll make another one. If that one doesn't do well, we'll make another one. And we just kept hitting publish. And that I think like it is either some your lack of shame, or like weird impulsive, like, even. And I tell the story a lot because I think it is really useful for artists or for people that want to do something is that when I first started making stuff on the internet, it was not good. It was just like videos, little vlogs that I was making. And a friend of mine from college emailed me this long email and he was like, what you're doing is embarrassing, like your contents, not good. Like you need to stop. You're like really making a fool of yourself. Like everyone thinks that, like this stuff that you're putting on the internet is like, really embarrassing, and like you should stop promoting it. And they were just like, what a blog or whatever. And I was like, really, I was like devastated, but not enough to stop. Because I was just like, and over time, like, I kept doing stuff kept doing stuff. And like I knew that people in maybe the comedy sphere or whatever with me were sort of like, okay, weirdo, or like thought that it was embarrassing, or whatever. And it probably was, but like, I I don't know what happened. Like that guy was in the comedy scene with me. I don't know what happened to him. Like I, I ended up I don't know. Like, there were people and this is the thing, right? There were people in I was in a comedy troupe in college, there were people in my comedy troupe, I would say there are four people I can think of off the top of my head who were much funnier than me. much funnier than me. But what happened to them? They didn't make things. They didn't continue. They didn't they didn't feel like they could. They they felt embarrassed. They everything they needed to make was going to be perfect. And they had to have it be perfect. And they they wouldn't, you know, make a podcast, almost That was perfect. And all this kind of stuff. And none of them work in comedy. I gotta tell you, though, so I think that one I agree that that perspective, about it needs to be right. It needs to be good. It needs to in the in the, in the perception. Good. Well, but more importantly, nobody can like so and we talked about, you know, so you see people like post like, I'm going to be at the pizza place on Tuesday telling jokes. And then I'm going to be at the beer place. Yeah, I'm gonna be the whatever, right? And there is this element of you have to get out and do. And it's only through that process that you can figure out what is it that I'm supposed to be saying? And I and I feel like if your attitude and your perspective is anybody is paying attention to this, then you will always set yourself up for failure because the reality is, nobody is paying attention to the overwhelming majority of your failures. Yep, totally right and ever they don't even know about about your book that didn't sell right. That you talked about earlier? Yeah, that's right. Yeah, I didn't know the show that nobody came to, right. So when you go, how is the show on Tuesday night, you'd be like, show was great. Nobody. Nobody knows how many people were there or weren't to Gary's point, she finishes. Right. She just keeps finishing and finishing and finishing until but I also think that there so I believe that there's a disconnect between the idea of like zero tolerance, right, the concept of zero tolerance. And I feel like if you hold this position that you are accountable for any mistake or misstep, you don't create the space that's needed for creative growth, right? There has to be massive forgiveness, in the context of what I said it 2014 as a person, right? Oh, absolutely. I mean, I wouldn't want to be starting out my career right now. Like I, I am very lucky to be able to just be like, I don't want to be on Twitter. And I really, I would, I would encourage, I mean, I don't know how feasible This is, but I feel like I want to do my work in private, and I want to do my work, like, I want my work to get made and go out and do stuff. But like, I don't want to answer questions about it. Like, I feel like I'm at a point where like, my work is, like I said, what I said, you know, and I think that a lot of people get into is like, wasting away trying to explain stuff on social media. And I feel like, I feel like that's the thing that's gonna have to really change is just like your work, as you said, what you said, like, you don't have the painter doesn't stand next to the painting and go like, Well, actually, what I meant was, and this is why but like, it's just like, No, you put it up. And then if people have a reaction to it, that's that. You've done your part, which is great. The thing and they've done their part, which is react, and that's it. Right. And I hope that we get back to that. Yeah. And in the context of a podcast, for example, I mean, think about how many podcasts have gone one episode. And it was posted, and there's no reaction to it, because nobody knows it exists, and people stop gonna not exist to like Episode 20. Like, it's fine. It's totally fine. And in addition, I don't so I think that they are in their own way. So comedic comedy sets, right, you watch. And honestly, I would make the argument that most comedy specials age poorly. They don't they you go back and look at any of even the classics. Right? And it's like, kind of sacrosanct that people would ever go back and criticize, like a great Comedy Album of the past. But a lot of Murphy criticizes his own comedy album. Yeah, I read really, I read really, you know, it's interesting, because like, people lost his early stuff, but I read an article with him or articles with him where he was just like, Oh, yeah, some of that was like, I was really talking out of my ass. And I have no idea what I was, like, you know, like that. That's not, you know, like, he, I think, like, they lie, they lie and eyes, and then the actual creator of the thing is like, I could have been, it could have been better. It could have been better. It could have been different. Everybody goes through that. So I think that that's part of the creative process. And I think Adams question is, in your, I get the sense, both listening to your work. But then also, having participated in this conversation with you is, it sounds like you have in some respects, you have found your voice right? In and I mean that to say, you have a better handle on how to say what you want to say, even if what you want to say changes over time. Sometime, sometimes I really am like, why did I do that? What's a good example of a Why did I do that? Oh, God. You know, I don't know, I have two things that half the things that I think are gonna be controversial, nobody cares. And then all like, Whoa, I like that's why I'm off Twitter, because then I'll post something that I think is like, so obvious. And it'll be like, that'll be the one that ever like, I just don't. It's very, the unpredictable nature of it Really? did not do well with my need to shoot my mouth off. Cause like, why do I need to fight with people? Why are you to argue with people like, why do I need to be fought with though? Don't you feel like it's too much sometimes. And by the way, it would be nice to have someone that you can just bring in as your ringer. You're like, oh, here's a fight. You just continue and finish this for me. Yeah, that's really, when your social media is curated by someone who just fights for you, right? Just calling the bouncer. Okay, so listen, I don't I don't want to tell you how to run your lives. But if you just give somebody else your login information, you can do that. Oh, really? Yeah, exactly. Well, that's actually a really good business idea. someone's like, Hey, you got it, but it's like an infomercial like I see you got it too. Fight with someone on Twitter. I'll take you know for some I'll see I'll take over that takes a lot of energy that will ruin your whole afternoon. Don't let this happen to you. Just hire me and I'll finish out the conversation and deal with the trolls. So here's what I've started to do, Gabby, I've I have, I have posted less politically oriented stuff on my personal like Facebook page, right? However, I am freely expressing my views on other people's as comments to other people's posts. But I definitely feel like I am. And I know this is a poor, maybe analogy to use to express it, but they they are ideologically on the side of the road with a broken down car. And here I come with a little truth bomb in the comments. Like, I deleted Facebook. I live I have a roommate who's younger. And she will come in the house and be like already talking about something that happened on Twitter that like I should know about. And I'll be like, you know what I did today? Nothing. I just I didn't engage with any I have no idea like I live in between the two of us now I live in a different universe. I love the fact that Bendel earlier complained about being put in the category of the you know, middle aged guy but yeah, referenced Facebook was early in that category and middle age I'm Yeah. All right. Hang on a second. How's your MySpace account working? Still? First of all, oh my god, I would go back to my face and Oh, my God. We were so safe there. Right. It was just it was just exchanging music basically. My face back hashtag bring my face. My Space. I will tell you the only other thing that I'm doing on Facebook on Facebook now, which I'm really actually enjoying, because you're gonna have a gimmick, you're gonna have a thing. I am reposting cars for sale where people have included a photograph of their dog. That's your dog not included. Dog not? I would only but that could be your whole Instagram page. Yeah, dog not included. Not Included, included. Right? And it's just rant. Like why is the dog in the picture? And my son's dog so dog? So I don't know, it's it's the craziest thing of like, Why in the world cup is so that and there is you want to know why q anon exists because people think they still have to cover up their license plate in the picture of their car for sale. And they put a red or a fist part of that problem. So I mean, I, I it does really come full circle to like, I'll tell anyone your information on internet it's dangerous to Oh, my god, no, just like be totally open on the internet back to I think everyone should have private accounts. So nobody gets in trouble. You don't I mean, like we've gone fully back around. But like don't tell anyone. Well, what you realize is is how tenuous your because obviously the in your case, right? Any person who tries to make an income support themselves from the standpoint of their creative endeavors, right? You, You are always at risk that those things could be taken away from you by a misstep. That is a byproduct of having to live in some public fashion. Yep. Now that that's exactly that's, that's it? That's the whole thing. Yeah. Which is, which is really perverse in some respects. So the machine wants, yep, participation. But yet, it's a it is a very fickle machine at that. Yep. And so I've decided to, I've decided to opt out, and I will just, and then I've just been trying to focus more on just like writing by myself, but I'm fully aware that the reason I'm able to do that is because I engaged with this machine for 10 years, which occasionally like bit like it you know, there were multiple times where it's like it's bitten me and then I've come back I sit me again, like, I was like joking with my partner, I'm going to call my memoir, like to cancel them back. Like it's like, you know, like and then you and so like, it's like a bad addiction that I'm like now I'm like, okay, I engaged with that for 10 years. It was like probably super harmful but also my career but also made me miserable. And now that I put in that decade, I can just sit here quietly, right. But like that's a that's a privilege that I have now because I engaged with this like thing. That also at times really was detrimental to my career. So I don't know. I wouldn't want to be stuck. Wouldn't want to be starting now. Right? What are you gonna say? I was just gonna completely disrespect the timeline of the interview and just say that I would love to see Eddie Murphy. Go back and do one of his classic specials, same jokes, but just rewritten as he would tell them today. Good. That would be incredible. You couldn't do that. That I don't think that that's possible. I don't think that can mean so, comedians, my dream mental. I just said that this is a dream that I have just crushed my dream. Your Dreams are not real life. No, no, no. I said that's why their country and clearly supported me on the really, it'd be really fun. Yeah, I think so. There was a time I'm gonna. I'm gonna fix your idea for Jimmy. Oh, thank you. Okay, because the ideas sort of broken. There was a time period back when I think Country Music Television was the thing where they would do two different genre artists one of course always be in country together singing each other songs. Oh, I love that. I think you should say they should do like a special where say, Seinfeld? Does Eddie Murphy's Ra. I kind of love that. Right. Eddie Murphy. Then does. Seinfeld's 24 hours. Damn you Bandol? That's good. I love that idea. You just quit. It's either that or you. You meet you have the one comic write jokes that have to be said by the other comic. That's a different show. But that'd be kind of fun. That would be a great show. Yes. Yeah. If you had to, if it was almost like the great cake Bake Off but with premises. Yeah. Great premise. Okay, well, first off. Sounds a Great British Bake Off, but I love that you call this a great cake. Yeah, whatever. Right? Yeah, it would be hilarious. It would it Yes. It would be and like, but I also would love to see them break down like okay, so I would I would, I would also love to see them be like, here's how I would tell this now or here's what I would do with this premise now. Versus like, at that time. I mean, they're all time capsules Really? Totally. Jamie one up in my dream. There is why he gets first billing is Jamie on the broadcast. Yep. There Jamie is second Jamie. Yeah, the second Jamie and then I kind of bring in the end with the really long did you watch Oprah and Harry and Meghan Markel? I did not. I didn't even know what happened. This is how off Twitter I had no way to get. I had no idea it happened. My like, roommate had to come in and be like, Oh my god, so the Megan Markel thing and I was like, I literally have no idea what you're talking about. I live in space. Now. I don't like I don't know anything that's going on. It sounds healthy, though. It sounds pretty healthy. It is. But also I get like, No, no, I'll get like, I'll get like, okay, so we want you to do a packet for this late night show. Here's like, five, you need to do five topical jokes. And I'm like, I got nothing. Oh, the worst part about that is, I think is that you realize if you do spend any time on Twitter, like the 10 most obvious jokes on that topic, have been done 1000 times. Yeah. And also, it's like, I feel like when my parents watch SNL, and they're like, we don't know who any of the we don't know who the guest is. We don't know who the musical guests. Like who I am that. They're just like, I have no, I have no concept of any but you know, my like, my parents get along fine. Like the world is still moving. That's what's been the great lesson is that like, the like, there's less competition, because like, I'm just like, the world's still going, like, I don't have to be the first one to this joke. Thank God, my parents are not on Twitter. Right? Now, my mom's on Twitter. But he just tweets that Brian Williams and Jimmy Fallon and I really don't know why. That's a disparate group of people. Brian and Jimmy, right. It's okay. I guess they're both on an 11. So having said all of that, you have spent a considerable amount of time offering advice to other people. Yeah. Okay. So, in all of that advice that you have given, is there anything that you've you've really essentially distilled it all down to that no matter what the problem that somebody so I think that sometimes we have a tendency to think that our problems our issues are unique, and the reality is they're not. Right, here's here's my here's one. Just no is a complete sentence. You don't need to tell anyone, why not. You don't need to tell anyone like you don't need to work yourself up into a tizzy or whatever people are gonna be mad at you. They'll be and they'll be upset. And they'll like, you know, but like, if you don't want like saying I don't want to is enough of a reason. If someone it Just no. And then why I don't want to. That's it, you're done. You know, I don't want to. And I actually think that if you did that more, yeah, it's easier to say. It's easier to say and people will stop asking you. Yeah, I think people respect I think that people underestimate the degree to which they respect the honesty, because to me for a lot of time, some of it just distills down to what makes you happy. Yeah, right. And yeah, that, like, everything else is a waste of time. And like, if you don't, and like you know, people get, I mean, a lot of the advices like, people being like, first of all, one, like, honestly, it's none of your business how someone else feels about you. So, like, if you just like, like, I just started because I have a friend who will just be like, no, and then you say why? And they go, I don't want to and I was like, I'm taking that like that is? Where do you go? Right? Well, then there you go. Okay. Because what are you going to say? Yeah, which scenario the other person goes, Okay, and then gives you an give you an alternate plan, right? Well, the worst thing is when you say, Oh, I can't do it. Like somebody says, Hey, you want to come over to our house for dinner? And you don't really want to, rather than saying I can't do it this week, you're gonna have to beg off on it in a week or two. It is actually much better to just say like, I don't think that's really something that appeals to me. I don't know. I don't really go to like go into people's houses. Yeah, that's not gonna work. Perfect. Yeah, that's exactly. Yeah. You could say the truth. Yeah. It is kind of hurtful, though. When I invite Adam or Jamie over beer, and they just say, no, no. Just No, it's no period. punctuation. Yeah, you work together. So that's a little tricky. But yeah, nobody is nobody's, like, for me, it's like, it's nobody's business. What if somebody, it's hard, because my friends, a lot of it is like, but this person will think this, but this person will think that and I just I think I'm lucky sometimes that I have a bit of a like, while they seem that and like that, there seems to be a thing that they're feeling. And I can't really control that. And oh, well. And let me tell you, a lot of people don't like me. But it is empowering. I think that you are you do give advice. But you do feel strong enough to say, Look, I'm the one creating the content here. I'm going to give you advice that doesn't make you entitled to get any more than I'm willing to give. That seems kind of a healthy way to control and in a world like that, like for me like, not like, let's say a million subscribers, like a million people know who I am. I don't like everybody I've ever seen or ever met. Like, wow, how can I expect a million people to all like me, there's no world in which I have control over that. And like, some people, like I said, like people maybe saw something I made in 2015. And they didn't like it and they haven't checked in since then. And then once someone's like you like Gaby Dunn? They're like, no, and I'm like, Yeah, that makes sense. That angry troll 751 from Poughkeepsie, doesn't really like you. You know? I mean, it's kind of like, okay, like, I get it. There's some people I don't like. So I maintain that every comedian has a 100% failure rate on every bit. Yeah, even at that Eddie Murphy raw, or whoever said only since we've referenced him a couple of times, that in that show in that theater, every single punch line, there's somebody in the audience who says that one doesn't work for me. Yes, exactly. And once you accept the fact that every joke you ever tell, even your best jokes that will make you the most money, the logo goes on the T shirt, it gets turned into a sitcom. It's a failure. It is the most freeing thing I just envisioned the future of comedy where there's some sort of facial recognition that if somebody just has not laughed at all and you're 30% into the show, they just the Usher just common polling. Amazing, okay. And you would not right I mean, you you've you've had experiences where you're doing that thing. You can be on stage having a you can be crushing in the audience, and there's somebody whose body language you don't like, and you will ignore every other person in the audience focus on the guy who's Okay. Do I figure out how to get a stupid laugh out of this person? Yep. Yeah, I given up. I'm, I've just like, you know, like I every song I hear isn't my favorite song. Like, every every comedian I see. Isn't my favorite comedian. Like, I can't Back, everyone to come away from my work. And me because of the internet not really having control over what work of mine they see first. Like, yes, not for you, I guess. Like I if the one guy in the audience isn't laughing I'm sort of like, okay, like that. That wasn't for you. To Gabby, I thought about I thought about this. I thought about you this way before the interview and I now it's been this interview is reinforced that entirely that I'm blown away with, at and honestly, so I'm are you? Are you I'm about to 47 and again, I'll be honest with you. The truth is that your life knowledge has come pretty far. If I had known that when I was your age, I barely figured that out last week. Right? And so you're doing pretty good kid. Keep it up. Right? You're doing great. Yeah. And along those lines we have we everything you've just said right now. Probably not making the final cut of the podcast. Why not? I just it just sounds I mean, it's I do have stuff that gets great audio of him trying to become best friends with the girl. Yeah. I love being friends with our guests. What can I say? And by the way, Gabby wins the friend award probably. And we say this. I say this with every I want to be best friends with her. That's all there is to it. I think it'd be awkward to put together a whole compilation episode of every time he says that and then just be like, welcome to the friendly podcast. A two to three hour podcast doesn't really. Rate Raymond, it's Adam loves everybody loves you, you would have just been more succinct, if you would just simply said, having had the time really to get to know you be in this conversation. I'm gonna give you back the two points that I normally detract from people who come from Florida. Yeah, it's true. She's definitely, definitely went over her two points on it. Yeah. So we, we do ask guests questions that I think well even bring forth your right. Okay, I'm gonna stop let Jamie desperate, we've been having such a nice conversation. And Jamie has been vigorously waving a post it note to the point where he actually bought a billboard outside while we were talking like up on a billboard and says, Hey, you have to ask questions. Okay, so we ask every guest who appears on the show? Are you familiar with the concept of a meet in three restaurant? No. All right. What is that a meet in three restaurant is a cafeteria style. Very common place throughout the South and Midwest, where you go in and you pick an entree that is your meat. And then you get to pick three sides with it. So they're like, do you want chicken or steak and then you get you know, your veggies? Okay, we asked that question in this context, in your life. What is the meat? What is the thing, the organizing principle, the philosophy around which you organize the rest of your life? Yeah, I mean, I truly think it is like, it is this. I mean, recently it is this idea of like, you thought it was this billboard that I saw, or this piece of art that I thought that was like, you, you don't like everybody, so stop expecting everybody to like you. And that was like, super freeing. Okay, and so I've really yeah, I've really been centering a lot of my stuff around around that and also not like just like, likability in general like being okay with being unlikable. Alright, so if that's your, if that's the anchor, then what are the three attributes that you would like people to most commonly associate with you? confidence and like, being interesting, being having new thoughts or new things to say but also being interested in other people. So wanting to hear other people's thoughts wanting to like being interested and interesting. And then, I think being willing to change like fluidity, okay. Like do you have any questions of us? No, no, I I'm glad I'm happy. I'm happy for you guys that are doing your podcast and I hope there are a million episodes. We are going to probably have to talk quicker and be more apparently I need to stop being so nice to the guest. Right? You should say nice to the guy. Thank you very much. You should be true to who you are. Take that day. Jamie, just be true to who you are that I am. That's the we talk about that all the time. I think it's a real challenge. And I think that unfortunately, there is there, it's not unusual that children talk about the rigidity of their parents, in part, because there is a massive tendency. I think it's two things, I think you you reach a point in your life where you perceive your life to be fixed. And, and as a result, you you can get stuck in some beliefs, you can be stuck in some perspectives. And there's and there are what you perceive to be social costs for changing those perspectives. may mean you lose some friends, it may mean you could put your life your financial well being at risk. And then I think you become freed, elderly person. Where That way you will say, anything that crosses your mind at the moment at which it hits your tongue. I surely can't wait for that. Right. Yeah. And I think that that's driven by the fact that you realize the end is here. Right? And you have wasted the opportunity to be fluid to be fluid and to be and to actually be who you are. Yeah, agreed. Yeah. But Ben was saying, Adam, is that you need to be more selective because we're gonna have a rule that if you try to become the best friend of a guest, yep. You can't become the best friend of the next guest. Okay, so you have to watch your book next. So I'm fine with that. Yeah. So much I really appreciate the interview and the kindness. Alright, well, we appreciate you taking the time to join us and spend some time with us here. And we do encourage people to really consume all of the content you have created, and it is very plentiful. I know you're talking about being on social media, but if people wanted to find you, where do you want them to? Yeah, I'm on Instagram at Gabby road. JB Why are at and then the bad with money podcast comes out March 31. It's my brand new season. And then I want the Just Between Us podcast, which is every Wednesday and Friday. So don't listen to those. Yep, they're great. All this? Yep. Totally, I appreciate it. Thanks, guys. It's been a lot of fun. Alright, she'd Gaby done. If you are not following her listening to the content she creates, she will actually reduce I think some of the shame I'm gonna say that people have around their lack of knowledge of money issues and how some of the things that you may struggle with financially aren't necessarily unique to you, or, arguably your fault that there are some structural things that cause all people to have challenges and money. And then of course, the Just Between Us podcast is really quite enjoyable as well. She and Alison, do a great job on that. Yeah, I like it. Yeah, absolutely. A lot of thought was great. Oh, yeah. It was wonderful. What a great good time. Yeah, I crushed it. Well, I mean, I felt like you did take up 90% of the interview. But yeah, if you take up 30 minutes of the 45 minute interview, you're bound to have two or three minutes of gushing. Yeah, I couldn't stop talking. Yeah, I mean, I I mean, I thought I was I mean, I carried my weight. I mean, thank God, we're not being paid per word. No, because honestly, you would be bankrupt at this point. Couldn't afford me. Yeah. Oh my god. No, no, we definitely gonna come on. Yeah. To get with the people who booked the sponsors for this show. Yeah. Honestly, there's so much hot air on the other side. We could we could literally, I actually get a little sweaty during the interview. Yeah, like the temperature in the room is up and that could have been all the heat that I was bringing. Yeah, I mean, cuz it was, it was substantial. It was substantial. Alright, sheep, it was a good one. enjoys sheep you can go off. Enjoy the back to doing whatever it is. You're doing sheep taka taka fields.